MM: Let’s talk about competition for the discretionary dollar. Lately, I’ve been thinking about the parallels between the retail and the nonprofit sector: the competition for wallet share, mindshare, affinity with a brand. And both sectors are highly susceptible to economic and competitive headwinds out of their control. From your perspective, what are the similarities or differences?
WW: So, I think the similarities are very real. If you think about it, we’re all competing for discretionary dollars at the end of the day. If you look at inflation costs for just basic living in terms of food costs, fuel costs every month, more and more mortgages come up for renewal and those costs are increasing. Which means, the discretionary dollars that used to exist in the past have either been reduced or they’ve been eliminated. And so, I think the headlines are real. And it forces you to focus on the value you deliver to a consumer in their life at the end of the day. One of the differences, though, between our two worlds is when you support a nonprofit, there’s also a tax credit.
The job at the end of the day is to remind the consumer or the donor about the value you are providing to their life and the value that they also provide to the brand, that charity, the experience. And so, I think there’s the work to grow affinity from an emotional perspective, that share of heart. But there’s also that functional piece that allows you to grow the share of mind.
MM: In terms of building that share, you know a lot of nonprofits focus on storytelling, and to me, storytelling and brand building are intertwined. Can you share your perspective as to how those two things come together in the context of the competition for the shopper or for the donation?
WW: Yeah, I think storytelling is really important. It’s very important to have an understanding of what your mission, your purpose, your values are and how you could communicate those out in the world. But more so how you deliver against them, because for me it is more about deeds than words. I think people will listen to your words, but they’ll believe your actions, at the end of the day.
It’s very important to have an understanding of what your mission, your purpose, your values are and how you could communicate those out in the world. But more so how you deliver against them, because for me it is more about deeds than words.
If I think about our work at Holt’s in the sustainability space, or if I think of the work in the nonprofit space, the understanding of the impact is really important. I kind of equate it to a fitness journey where it’s like day-by-day — you don’t necessarily see or feel the impact that you make because they are little bricks that you’re building in the wall, right? So, you might see the corner of the wall but you don’t see the whole wall that you’re building. And it’s not until you’ve done it for a significant amount of time that you’re able to step back and see what you built. I think for the nonprofit space, it’s really allowing folks to understand whether their actions or their donations are big or small, the impact they contribute to at the end of the day. With the access that people have to information, transparency is very important from a consumer perspective; understanding what it is they’re buying or what it is they’re donating to, and then how those dollars are used at the end of the day to create sustainable, long-lasting impact. So, I think you always want to weave that into your storytelling so that people know it’s not just about feeling good when they donated money or bought more sustainably — it’s by taking these small steps which adds up to a big action.
I think you always want to weave that into your storytelling so that people know it’s not just about feeling good when they donated money or bought more sustainably — it’s by taking these small steps which adds up to a big action.
I’m reminded of The Nike Circular Design Guide they developed. Nike is a huge organization and if they take really impactful sustainable steps, the change they can make is huge. But what they did with the guide is they published it for the public — any company could go in and use it. So, while companies might share values with Nike, they might not have the resources or the infrastructure Nike has, and they were able to understand that if we do this, then the impact that we can make is great. But, by Nike sharing this with the world, the impact we can all make is huge. And so, I think be willing to share your knowledge, your insights, your processes to help deliver against a greater good at the end of the day.
MM: I think that makes so much sense. One of the things we ask nonprofits and we ask of people is to be great storytellers because they need to resonate emotionally, right? But how do we know if those stories are the right stories, or if they are the most compelling ones — what is the measurement component of storytelling? Is it just dollars and cents, or is there another way to quantify if our stories are being effective?
WW: Yeah, I think there are a lot of ways. One is the research and the insights you’re using to determine the stories that you should be telling, where you should be telling them and who you should be telling them to.
I think with the access to data and tech we have; we have an ability to fundamentally shift the way we can communicate. Like, back in the day, it was we take one story and we blast that as far and wide as we can to as many people as we can, and it was about how many people can we reach and how many impressions can we get. Well, thanks to data and tech, we have an ability to understand who that person is, where they are in their journey, the channels that they live, work and play on and understand their interests and their behaviours and what that allows us to do is to deliver the right message to the right person in the right place at the right time. At Holt’s, we have a traditional consumer that has shopped with us for decades and decades, and then we have new consumers who are walking into our stores every day. And so, we are a department store slash lifestyle store. So, what are the aspects of the offering that we have that appeal to the lifestyle that you have, and being able to connect those dots is really important because the more relevant you are in your storytelling, the more it will resonate with the person at the end of the day.
Well, thanks to data and tech, we have an ability to understand who that person is, where they are in their journey, the channels that they live, work and play on and understand their interests and their behaviours and what that allows us to do is to deliver the right message to the right person in the right place at the right time.
MM: So that’s the perfect segue into one of the things I wanted to talk about, which is the concept of brand loyalty, right? Because for nonprofits, monthly giving is absolutely critical. It’s the flow of revenue they can count on every month. So, brand loyalty is paramount. I’m curious, how does a lifestyle brand like Holt Renfrew cultivate brand loyalty over time?
WW: There’s a variety of ways. I think one is through the products we carry, which are relevant to people over the different life stages they have; we carry categories through women’s, men’s, kids and for home. So, we really think about where you are in your life and how we can help you have a life well-lived. And so, again, I think part of it is the product selection. Another part of it is the store experience, but I think part of it is also understanding who that consumer is and where they are in their life and having that consumer kind of grow with us.
Beauty is a great gateway into Holt’s because it’s an affordable luxury. It’s an everyday luxury and it’s easier for some people to afford a Chanel lipstick than it is for them to afford the Chanel purse. It doesn’t mean that they won’t be able to afford a Chanel purse at some point, but I think we want to treat every shopper as if they’re special because that is a special moment for them. So, it should be a special moment for us as well. And so, even if you have no money at all and a designer has just released a collection that you are in love with, I want you to come into the store. I want you to try it on. I want you to take pictures. I want you to see the detail and all of it because there is such a passion and a love for the fashion world that we need to fuel those fires. I think it’s about creating a welcoming environment for all with products and services and then accommodating the variety of lifestyles and life stages within our store environments.
So, what are the aspects of the offering that we have that appeal to the lifestyle that you have, and being able to connect those dots is really important because the more relevant you are in your storytelling, the more it will resonate with the person at the end of the day.
MM: So well said and I think so applicable to nonprofits. It’s the one-time gift from donors—that lipstick—which nonprofits aim to cultivate and curate over time, upwards through the pyramid of giving. It’s a similar relationship with people who come in and have a browse in your store — you hope to find a connection, make that initial purchase and then build that loyalty.
One of the things you touched on, Wes, is about data and deriving information and insights from it. I’m curious as to how much energy does a retailer like Holt’s put into data segmentation, data health and data integrity, because that’s a long-standing challenge nonprofits have. There can be a mountain of work to get through even to find those hidden gems. So, how do you tackle that?
WW: Data and tech can be overwhelming. Yes, it is vastly available, whether it’s through your first-party, or whether it’s through a third-party. And I think the data is incredibly important. I think the tech to facilitate it is incredibly important. But data is like oil. There’s no value until you refine it, right?
But data is like oil. There’s no value until you refine it, right?
And so, to me, the most important component is talent because you need those people who are able to look at this gigantic mountain of data and find that needle in the haystack, be able to extract it, to be able to organize it, drive what the insight is, and then be able to tell the story.
The most important component is talent because you need those people who are able to look at this gigantic mountain of data and find that needle in the haystack, be able to extract it, to be able to organize it, drive what the insight is, and then be able to tell the story.
I think we’ve all got 1,000 dashboards we can look at and charts and graphs and numbers can say 101 things, but it’s being able to refine that into what key pieces are truly important and what is the action that comes off the back of it. So, I have this piece of data but what is the actionable insight that comes out of it? Or else we’re just staring at dashboards and looking at red and green, right? The talent component is so huge and when you find the right talent, hold on to them tight because this is a very competitive space.
MM: So, the talent that you’re talking about, can you expand on it because readers might want to know, are we talking about a data analyst position?
WW: Yes, like a data analyst position. And an insights person because there is a difference between the analytics and the insights, right? I think it’s important to understand what we should be measuring and how they should be measured, but then there’s that translation of taking those results or that information and translating them into those actionable insights. If you found both skillsets in one person, congratulations! You have discovered a unicorn.
It’s important to understand what we should be measuring and how they should be measured, but then there’s that translation of taking those results or that information and translating them into those actionable insights.
But, if you don’t, I think that they go hand-in-hand. You have your analyst, you have your insights person and then you also have that strategist that is able to turn it into a tactical plan.
MM: I think it’s important to recognize these are individuals with unique skills versus what a lot of nonprofits struggle with: giving the entire job to one person or getting a consultant who knows a sliver of that equation. But, from what I hear you say, it’s those multiple filters that contribute to cultivating actionable insights. And I think that’s where it gets really overwhelming — without the right talent (to your point) — and nonprofits are always resource-constrained. Tech can’t solve that problem alone. You need humans.
WW: Tech is a tool, right? The same way that a hammer is a tool, but you need a carpenter to wield the hammer, right? And so, the value you place on your data and tech solutions for teams and the investments you make will equal what you get out of them.
Tech is a tool, right? The same way that a hammer is a tool, but you need a carpenter to wield the hammer, right? And so, the value you place on your data and tech solutions for teams and the investments you make will equal what you get out of them.
And if you don’t place the value in time on those teams and the infrastructure, then you’re not going to get the value out of it. Essentially, you’re going to be asking a person to paint the Sistine Chapel with a mop, right? So, give Michelangelo a paintbrush to paint instead of a mop.
MM: Awesome. Any other advice, wisdom or thoughts you have for nonprofits looking to carve out wallet share to support their mission?
WW: I think understanding the journey they’re on towards the vision or the impact they’re trying to achieve is key. Because a lot of these things can seem impossible to solve, especially for people that aren’t as close to it.
Then, understand what is unique about your position. I had the pleasure of working at Cossette (Advertising Services) at the time they had done the SickKids Hospital campaign. They took a very stereotypical group of sick kids seen as just that — sick kids —who were weak and need help. But, in fact, they’re not weak at all — they are incredibly strong. They are fighting every day of their lives to overcome horrific illnesses whether it is cancer, whether it is disease, whatever it might be.
So, what they did is they were able to flip the whole thing on its head and basically — in the same way that Nike would focus on the strength and the performance of an athlete — they focused on the strength and the performance of these kids. And it just flipped the whole industry on its head.
So, ask yourself, are the perceptions about what you’re doing, or about who you’re helping the right ones, or do you have an ability to flip those on their head and really show the power and the strength of the mission you’re on, of the vision you have, and the outcome you’re trying to deliver? I think what that can do is create a lot of excitement, passion and energy around your cause and around the impact you’re trying to deliver, at the end of the day.
So, ask yourself, are the perceptions about what you’re doing, or about who you’re helping the right ones, or do you have an ability to flip those on their head and really show the power and the strength of the mission you’re on, of the vision you have, and the outcome you’re trying to deliver?
MM: That was a powerful and thought-provoking statement, Wes. And I think a lot of the insights you have are drawn from your experience working in advertising agencies with clients across all industries. Because the nonprofit sector tends to be insular, talk to me about the significance of stepping outside one’s natural habitat.
WW: Step outside of your box, step outside of your world. Look out, be inspired, and then apply the lens of your world to the things that are inspiring you and see if there’s a fit, right? And it might be a square peg in a square hole, or it might be a round peg that’s never going to fit. But I just think, be inspired by the world around you because the consumer or the donor does not live in an isolated world, right? So, think of the context of that person in the world in which they live and how you can break through everything they have thrown at them each and every day.
Be inspired by the world around you because the consumer or the donor does not live in an isolated world, right? So, think of the context of that person in the world in which they live and how you can break through everything they have thrown at them each and every day.